Re: zzSig: Dimension display (was Re1: Questions

[Ted Nelson <ted@xxxxxxxxxx>]

Hi Jan--

>  I'm concerned because it seems
> to me that if one adds a new cell to, say, the end
> of an existing rank, that cell only is connected along
>  If one walks out onto the
> new cell, making it the current, there is only one
> dimension it has a connection on, so the axes display
>  Is this the intent?

HA!  Good question.  It happens that I got a new phrasing
 in today's meetings that could help.

First, 
zzstructure is intended as a universal representation
 for all structure.
This means that interfaces-- esp. views-- can be
 generalized and transposable from one use to another.
We program new views to accentuate different things.

Any view is legitimate (though not nec. useful),
 and may be more appropriate for some forms of data,
 and may appeal to some people more than others.

The prototype views are based on a raster (sequence of cell
 refreshments) shaped like an old television antenna--
 a main line crossed at right angles by several others.

Turned horizontally the main line refreshes all the cells
 horizontally from the cursor, then vertically from
 every cell on the main line till the cells run out or
 the end of the window is reached.  This was originally
 called the "H" view (a sort of recursive H replicated
 horizontally), now sometimes called the "column" view
 because it shows mostly columns connected by one row.

Turned vertically it's the converse: the main line
 refreshes all the cells vertically from the cursor, then
 horizontally from every cell on the vertical main line
 till the cells run out or the end of the window is reached.  

(However,  fewer cells can be shown horizontally because
 they contain text).  This was originally called the "I" view
 (a sort of capital I replicated vertically), now sometimes
 called the "row" view because it shows mostly rows
 connected by one column.

Ttuomas Lukka and the Gzz group have programmed
 several other nice views, and I haven't seen them all.

Now as to the compass-rose or axes display that we've
 been putting in the upper left corner:
ALL OUR VIEWS SO FAR HAVE SHOWN THE SAME
 DIMENSIONS FOR ALL CELLS.  This is not a necessary
 condition, merely a useful simplification we have begun with.
That said,
 in all the views we've seen so far,
 the axes shown are the same for all cells viewed.

For example, if you're looking at d.1 and d.2 and you
 jump to a cell with no connections in either,
you'll see that cell with no connections,
but the compass-rose will still show the same dimensions.

This is not a fundamental condition of the system.
 It is a design decision for all the views that exist so far.
 And one I'm comfortable with for the foreseeable future,
 but DEFINITELY not a restriction on other people!

I have a feeling this may answer your question ?-)

In brief: for all the views we're currently playing with
 (possibly even in Finland), the compass-rose doesn't
 change no matter where the cursor goes.

But in imaginable views, sometime, it might.

Thus endeth the first answer.

Allbest, T


At 09:26 AM 5/3/02 -0400, you wrote:
> At 01:20 AM Friday 05/03/2002, Ted Nelson wrote:
> Hi Jan--
>
>>What did you mean when you wrote, in the patent,
>>
>>    Which dimensions appear in a particular view
>>    are controllably navigated to by selectively
>>    picking another DIMENSION DEFINED FOR THE
>>    CURRENT CELL, and rotating it to become a
>>    dimension in a view...
>
> By 'defined for the current cell' I think I meant
> 'along which the current cell has some connection.'
>
> Ted, hi, on this point, maybe I should give you a call
>  I'm concerned because it seems
> to me that if one adds a new cell to, say, the end
> of an existing rank, that cell only is connected along
>  If one walks out onto the
> new cell, making it the current, there is only one
> dimension it has a connection on, so the axes display
>  Is this the intent?
>
> 
> >I also don't understand Figure 12, or its explanation
>
> I'm afraid I can't put my hand on the patent--
>
> I can send you a copy, if you like, no problem.
>
> 
> >which reads
>>
>>    FIG. 12 schematically depicts that a cell  may
>>    contain as its first element a contain dimension,
>>    and proceeding from that an embrace dimension.
>
>   Terrible!
>
>>I think it's explained in the text of the patent, and
>>simply means there are predefined d.contain and d.embrace
>>which are used in a stylized manner, viz.,
>>
>>    FIG. 12 shows schematically how the relation of
>>    containment may be defined on a special dimension,
>>     To achieve
>>    consistency, another dimension may be added, termed
>>     A cell contains as its first
>>    element the first cell posward on the containment
>>    dimension, and the rest of the content listing proceeds
>>    poswards from this first element on the embrace
>>     However, by interpretation all of this
>>    is deemed to be inside the cell.
>
>  These are now called
> d.contain
> and 
> d..contain-set
> (or at least I *think* that's what they're called in the
> FloatingWorld documents.
>
> Yes, I remember .contain and .contain-set, although I don't
>  Is there a standard significance
> to the double-dot notation I should know about?
>
> 
> This patent application is now Way Old, and I think
> it's all better defined in newer  material.
>
> It's better defined in the sense of having the benefit
> of more thinking invested in it, clearer, and with the
>  It may not be better in the
>"...with 
> circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of 
>"  That's okay, we'll make do.
>
...
> [snip]
>
> 
>
> At 10:42 PM 5/1/02 -0400, you wrote:
>>Ted,
>>
>>Hi.
>>
>>What did you mean when you wrote, in the patent,
>>
>>    Which dimensions appear in a particular view
>>    are controllably navigated to by selectively
>>    picking another DIMENSION DEFINED FOR THE
>>    CURRENT CELL, and rotating it to become a
>>    dimension in a view...
>>
>>  Did you mean by
>>"" that the cell is
>>  Does it mean that
>>the dimensions displayed on the upper left axes
>>really are supposed to come and go as the user
>>walks across the structure?
>>
>>I also don't understand Figure 12, or its explanation
>>which reads
>>
>>    FIG. 12 schematically depicts that a cell  may
>>    contain as its first element a contain dimension,
>>    and proceeding from that an embrace dimension.
>>
>>I think it's explained in the text of the patent, and
>>simply means there are predefined d.contain and d.embrace
>>which are used in a stylized manner, viz.,
>>
>>    FIG. 12 shows schematically how the relation of
>>    containment may be defined on a special dimension,
>>     To achieve
>>    consistency, another dimension may be added, termed
>>     A cell contains as its first
>>    element the first cell posward on the containment
>>    dimension, and the rest of the content listing proceeds
>>    poswards from this first element on the embrace
>>     However, by interpretation all of this
>>    is deemed to be inside the cell.
>>
>>Thanks,
>>
>>   --Jan
>>
>>


_________________________________________
Theodor Holm Nelson              
Project Professor, Keio University SFC Campus, Fujisawa, Japan
Visiting Professor, University of Southampton, England
 ?  e-mail: ted@xxxxxxxxxx   ?  world-wide fax 1/415/332-0136
 ?  http://www.sfc.keio.ac.jp/~ted/    ?  http://www.xanadu.net
 ? Coordinates in USA      Tel. 415/ 331-4422
  Project Xanadu, 3020 Bridgeway #295, Sausalito CA 94965
_________________________________________