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:zz,virt: Reply2 re Rampant Sewing Machines
- To: "Mark S. Miller" <markm@xxxxxxxxxx>, zzdev@xxxxxxxxxx
- Subject: :zz,virt: Reply2 re Rampant Sewing Machines
- From: Ted Nelson <ted@xxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 12:03:16 +0900
- Cc: ted@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
- In-reply-to: <4.1.19990411165024.00a068a0@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
- References: <184.108.40.206.19990412003218.009fbdc0@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> <4.1.19990406115003.009d1ed0@xxxxxxxxxxxx> <220.127.116.11.19990403180739.009a3360@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> <19990403111002.B749@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> <18.104.22.168.19990402231020.0079c330@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> <22.214.171.124.19990402080942.0099a100@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> <126.96.36.199.19990331143342.0092e8c0@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> <188.8.131.52.19990331005450.007ffa90@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> <184.108.40.206.19990331005450.007ffa90@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> <19990331024514.H9852@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> <220.127.116.11.19990331143342.0092e8c0@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> <19990331164928.B10875@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> <18.104.22.168.19990402080942.0099a100@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> <19990402094635.A520@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> <22.214.171.124.19990402231020.0079c330@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Reply-to: zzdev@xxxxxxxxxx
As I see the problem--
To sum up: the problem I see is desirable final result
in the global data tissue, which is a virtuality issue.
If we stick to well-ordered operations which keep the
structure orderly, there's no problem. (Eg each process
creates a parallel rank of cells, stitching them in a
perpendicular direction. Doesn't matter what order
the cells appear in each rank, the stitching works regardless.)
BUT if we set operations going which modify the tissue
in different ways and directions, the problem is still
visualizing and planning a reasonable result.
In a subset of cases, where a reasonable result is
created by one class of operation sequencing and not
another, we can define those classes and subject them
to concurrency. But that's a subset.
At 05:01 PM 4/11/99 -0700, you wrote:
>At 08:32 AM 4/11/99 , Ted Nelson wrote:
>>The problem isn't concurrency. The problem is the
>> complex tissue structure of ZigZag.
>In the absence of concurrency, would the complex tissue structure be a
>>A wonderful image just occurred to me: a lot of berserk
>> sewing machines on wheels, stitching everything in your
>> closet together chaotically.
>In terms of this analogy, would you have the same problem with only one
>If the answers are "yes", then I'm confused.
>If the answers are "no", then concurrency -- as conventionally understood --
>*is* the problem. From your description I'm even more confident that E's
>event-loop alternative can help.
Theodor Holm Nelson, Visiting Professor of Environmental Information
Keio University, Shonan Fujisawa Campus, Fujisawa, Japan
Home Fax from USA: 011-81-466-46-7368 (If in Japan, 0466-46-7368)
http://www.sfc.keio.ac.jp/~ted/ (Professorial page)
Permanent: Project Xanadu, 3020 Bridgeway #295, Sausalito CA 94965
Tel. 415/ 331-4422, fax 415/332-0136
http://www.xanadu.net (see also Professorial page, above)
PERMANENT E-MAIL: ted@xxxxxxxxxx
"Everything is like everything else, but some of the resemblances are
harder to see." TN99