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:zz: Yet another reply Re: oooo...kay

>What does zigzag need?

More programmers!  The to-do list is very long.

>Are you interested in the problem of the triumph of mediocrity, and how
>this affects the birthing of zigzag? (I know: not if I have to use

Not really.  Because there's also a niche market
 for brilliant generalists.

And another for the Fed Up.

All best, Ted

At 04:13 AM 6/20/98 -0400, you wrote:
>Maybe I should just shut up and wait for the docs. Maybe I haven't earned
>the right to talk to the heavy minds at the cutting edge. If you are going
>to strike off so many sparks, you are going to have to put up with the
>occasional novice who knows it ain't nothing but backbreaking work,
>catching a fire. I presume to send this along, aware as I am of the gap
>between our respective understandings. I have a similar gap to deal with,
>and in my case, my job is to maintain that gap. So I know better than to
>try to catch up to you. But you have purturbed me greatly, and now, you
>shameless tease, you tell me to wait for the docs. I'm a Barus, dammit.
>I've never pulled that one before, but I've gotta know. You're the fucker
>who first showed me a banjo, resulting in a thirty-year journey (is yours
>in tune?). That ought to count for something. Ok, I'm sorry I got excited.
>Just deal with it. I'll try to sit on it after this.
>Here is my little kindergarten system I built all by myself. It makes my
>living in an earlier version. I call this a hierarchic RDBMS, or "HRDBMS".
>It uses a very good, but conventional, runtime system. It's a generic
>application framework. It could be programmed in a variety of systems, I
>just used what I had. Of course I'm limited to a record-based paradigm. It
>provides a user with the ability to dump lists of stuff into it, and
>organize them "instantly" into relational databases; and then, to link
>these RD's in subsidiary chains, or a tree or root system. Using a bike
>shop for an example:
>(Bikes Database)---------------------------------------
> |                                                     (Labor Database)
> |                                                      |
> Best Bicycle                                           Assemble Bike
> |    |  |    |                                         Tune-up
> |    |  |    |                                         fancy paint job
> |    |  |  (Wheels Database)
> |    |  |        |
> |    |  |        fancy wheel
> |    |  |
> |    |  (Brakes Database)
> |    |       |
> |    |       fancy brake------------------------------
> |    |                  |                            (Cables Database)
> |    |                  |                             |
> |    |                (brake pads Database)          expensive cable
> |    |                  |
> |    |                  expensive brake shoe
> |    |      
> |    (Frames Database)------
> |      |       |           (Front Forks Database)-------(Labor Database)
> |      |       |                 |                         |      
> |      |       |                 |                         adjust front
> |      |       |                 really cool front fork
> |      |       |             
> |      |   (Handlebars Database)
> |      |          |
> |      |          fancy handlebar 
> |      |
> |      fancy frame
> |          |
> |       (Labor Database)  
> |          |
> |          assemble frame
> |      
> Mediocre Bicycle 
> |       |    |
> |       |  (Wheels Database)
> |       |        |
> |       |        cheap wheels
> |       |
> |      (Brakes Database)
> |           |
> |           cheap brakes
> |      
> Etc.
>This kind of thing is probably old hat. I built this because I desperately
>needed one, and couldn't get one. Otherwise I'd still be a craftsman,
>whittling things. You can't whittle in an information age, without a CAD
>system. My first attempts used spreadsheets, but they were limited, maybe
>just by the programming interface. This one manages many-to-one-to-many
>relationships using a minimum of three files, one of which just maintains
>all the links. I could not sell an abstraction, but this prices things that
>couldn't be priced before, and damn quick, which makes it a golden egg.
>Maybe: Zigzag is sort of like a database file, in having fields, and a
>spreadsheet, having cells, but instead of having records or pages of cells,
>it's more like the loose fields are linked in amost any way one could
>possibly (logically) link them. So if that's the case, a "record" could be
>a set of fields with something in common; but those fields might also be
>part of a "record" from a whole different angle. Sort of like, if I build a
>matrix based on a cube, and sink it about halfway into a pool of water,
>then the surface of the water defines the current view of the contents.
>Roll the thing over, or sink it deeper, or just tilt it, and you get a
>whole different set of fields. Don't start with me, now, I don't wanna hear
>about making waves in the water, or doing it in zero gravity. I'm just a
>whitebelt at this stuff.
>Is anything in this at all related to zigzag (if so, what?) I'm just going
>on what I've downloaded. I can't see bloody much in the demo so far. Do any
>of the commands work? Is there a version that's loaded with anything
>What does zigzag need?
>If you want to make a computer do some job, you're pretty much stuck with
>an "application", aren't you?
>Are you interested in the problem of the triumph of mediocrity, and how
>this affects the birthing of zigzag? (I know: not if I have to use
>I still haven't heard from you, whether you ever ran across this
>Giambattista Vico?
Theodor Holm Nelson, Visiting Professor of Environmental Information
 Keio University, Shonan Fujisawa Campus, Fujisawa, Japan
http://www.sfc.keio.ac.jp/~ted/    PERMANENT E-MAIL: ted@xxxxxxxxxx
 Home Fax: 0466-46-7368  From USA: 011-81-466-46-7368
Project Xanadu (Permanent)
 3020 Bridgeway #295, Sausalito CA 94965
 Tel. 415/ 331-4422, fax 415/ 332-0136
Quotation of the day:
"Education is the process of ruining different subjects for you.  The last
subject to be ruined determines your profession."  Ted Nelson, ca. 1970.